Woman v. Workout: Lauren’s Navy SEAL Experience — Part 2
In Part 2 of Lauren’s Navy SEAL Experience, watch Lauren endure log PT drills and learn hand-to-hand combat moves. Does she have what it takes to be the first woman to complete this elite training program? Find out in our three-part series on Woman v. Workout: Lauren’s Navy SEAL Experience.
Whether training with the FDNY, tossing axes with STIHL Timbersports legends, or bounding through parkour routines, our fearless host manages to land on her feet with a smile (well, most of the time!).
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I have many friends, comrades in the Navy Seals, the first woman. That puts on Trident there will be a mass exodus of men brave men from the elite Navy SEALs teams, I can guarantee you that that’s just not scuttlebutt that’s a fact. This is one job a woman can’t do and is not wanted!!
Philip F Tourney
United States Navy, retired
Combat wounded veteran
Sir, I must say that your remark is noted. And as a chauvinist it must be very difficult to wrap your huge ego around the fact that women are just as capable of doing a mans job in any field, Any position and any thing you feel they cannot. A mass exodus? If that’s the case then good riddance for that will show who the real Marines/Seals are and who are not. women have been in the military since the civil war. When are people like you going to wake up? When a soldier is down and they call for a dust off there’s a good chance the pilot is a women! Should she turn her chopper around because she’s a women? Fact is it’s men like you that give the military a bad name, Your more then likely one of those guy’s who would rather see a women get raped then have her serve with the same dignity and honor that every other man has and women have been for years. The same women that have children, Work as nurses during war, helping men who’s legs have been blown off yet they stand their ground. Women work under more pressure then you would ever understand. One, because of people like you! get off your high horse and get real.
Dear Diego,
While I am not a chauvinist, I do not think that women should ever become SEALs or even part of an combat SOF team for that matter.
Reasons:
The Marines recently tried to implement women into their SOF teams, without a single woman passing. (30 men also failed the same training class) *Links to replies from USMC female personnel: http://www.heretical.com/miscella/frcombat.html
http://thesoldiersload.com/2012/05/24/women-do-not-belong-in-the-infantry/
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite
In a nutshell, the physique of most women (on average) are not capable of producing enough body strength to complete the basic physical training required for SOF/SEAL teams. They are more prone to injury when performing the same tasks under combat op-tempo than men. (see links above for reference)
Correction — not USMC SOF teams, but women in the Infantry Officer Course in Quantico.
Sir, I would just like to ask why all “liberals” seem to be the first ones to resort to personal attacks when disagreements arise (i.e., “…it must be very difficult to wrap your huge ego around the fact that women are just as capable of doing an man’s job in ANY field…”(emphasis added by author). I would like to pose this question to you then: why are there no women players in the National Football League (NFL)? Also, why do women have to have a league separate from the NBA? And also Baseball? The answer is simple my friend. Let me try to explain it this way: while there are surely women that are stronger and more athletic than most men out there, the fact remains that statistically speaking, women are not as strong or resilient as males physically in general. As I mentioned before, there are most definitely outliers that are very strong and possess large reserves of endurance, but that is very rare combined with the other variables at the levels required by special forces operators. To put it very simply, the strongest women are not close to the strongest males in terms of physical strength and endurance, although they may equal or exceed that of ordinary men. The bottom line is, if you allow women into elite military units such as the SEALS, it will serve no purpose other than to undermine its efficacy. Have a nice day. :)
Mr. Tourney–you would be scared s***less of childbirth!
Childbirth has nothing to do with combat training, or combat. Making that statement has no relevance. ******* the hills, jungle, or whatever hour after hour with full kit takes a heck of a lot of stamina. And then having to engage the enemy at a high state of readiness requires a skill set that few possess. That speaks to the SEAL wash-out rate which is very high. Inserting the male/female element puts an unnecessary and foolish element into the equation. Standards must remain high. Any modification increases the rate on failure and mortality.
Why even bring gender into it? ANYONE who can pass the damn training deserves the moniker SEAL. Period. How hard is that? So if it turns out that only one woman in a 100 can do it, FINE! Whatever! As noted, only a few can pass! If some turn out to be female then so be it. DEAL. If none can, none can.
Men are not physiologically correct to endure childbirth. Only women are made by their creator to be “the cradle of the unborn”. Men are made to be their protectors. Let’s not try to make ourselves something we are not. Let’s just be the best we can be, whether male or female, and accept that for what it is.
You are right, Philip about the results of a woman in the SEALs. But it will happen. The attacks against the “military culture” will continue until it is completely gone. Special Forces is pretty much the last bastion of testosterone left. It must be destroyed.
Testosterone has been a HUGE problem for military males. Generals’ heads are rolling because of it and there’s also the issue of MST. The Pentagon will just have to keep hammering away until they throw the perps out and replace them with drones. MST has been on the rise since they gave enlistment waivers to *** predators in order to fill recruiting quotas back in the mid 2000’s. When I did recruiting back in the 80’s you HAD to have a clean record and gave waivers only after carefully checking backgrounds.
We’re not debating whether there are ********* generals or not. This is about SEALS and war fighting, and testosterone is a lot better than estrogen when it comes to killing people and breaking things. When not restricted by politically motivated rules of engagement we have the best warriors in the world. There may women out there who have the skills and aptitude to be a SEAL but I pray to God the first woman SEAL isn’t an equal opportunity concession because they will neither deserve or have earned the respect of the real SEALS. Worse they will be a danger to the team they are assigned to.
Its easy to shoot well—when no one is shooting back.
Amen Boots. I served with several women that had the physical chops to ATTEMPT Buds training. And if they completed the SAME course as the men, and not some watered down equal opportunity version more power to them.
To the statement women can do anything a man can do– BULL. I cant bear children. You lack physicallity. You don’t find any women in the NFL do you? Its because the cannot compete physically. Its a biological fact that MOST women cannot compete with a man physically. There are always the notable exception but as a whole women have zero chance on a level playing field in the elite forces. Just like the NFL you don’t have the body. This has nothing to do with the ability to handle pain, multitask, shoot ( I ran the range and women are better natural shots) fly combat missions and a myriad of other high risk COMBAT situations. And PAALEEEZE dont try the childbirth thing– surviving childbirth is not a choice once you are pregent you are along for a ride. I lost a leg — Im figuring thats worse than childbirth. Neither has anything to do with the things that SEALS are required to do to accomplish their mission and protect their shipmates.
When they fail, the standards will be lowered to accommodate them
Notice her finger on the trigger in the first picture. That’s scary.
Yeah, she just might be a better shot than those guys. I know I outshot the SEAL unit I was stationed with as a Yeoman — except for the Commander, bless him. I’m an Expert Marksman on a Beretta & M16. Oh, & female. I can HIT what I aim at…
So, you can shoot a m16 and a m9 expert right? Well I could put money on the seal can still out shoot you in a combat situation. So, I would like to see you shoot expert when grenades, explosives, nand other combat noises and distractions.
I’m feel very sorry for you people. I have been involved with the military for a long time. i have reciently seen some of the most stupid combat procedures get thrown completely out the window as soldiers in fire fights put their fellow comrades in more danger then they were before the first shot was fired and you sit there and comment on the fact that her finger is on the trigger? I have seen soldiers in the field as we speak fire and almost hit the man right next to or in front of him. I have seen textbook examples of stupidity in the field in Iraq and Afghanistan that would make a soldier from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam say *** was that? You make me laugh and your supposed to be the elite? The men our children count on to suppress the enemy? I pray men like you would just disappear into the holes where you came from.
The holes we came out of were foxholes. When I served, we had no rights. We went where they sent us, ate what they gave us and did what we were told to do. That’s called a military. In order to treat us like that, we had to accept the military culture. That’s why it was called “military SERVICE.” When you turn boot camp into slipper camp, issue time-out cards and force NCOs to check their sexual harrassment handbook before they can issue an order then you have Romper Room. Women most certianly CANNOT do everything a man can do. That’s why the standards have to be lowered in order to allow them the RIGHT to serve. When men serve, it is a duty.
Hey Diego—I second that!! Consider this: I had to med-evac 25 MEN out of our AOR because of emotional issues related to combat…You can’t generalize. Yes I know that a lot of women in the military made a lot of us motivated in shape women look bad. But we’re all not like that. I usually don’t reply to this stuff, but I am absolutely horrified at some of these comments–the sexism. I am a two time combat veteran with the USMC and yes I am a woman.
I just retired in 2009 and you know what–5 duty stations with Marines, only ONE Marine was outright sexist to me. The rest were absolutely respectful, especially when I could outshoot them. I carried my weight plus my medical gear. I would never cheer when a fellow service member fails…this is sad. Let me remind you—the majority of veteran suicides are MEN, they are plagued with PTSD, alcoholism, drugs, and even homicide rates are increasing. I don’t hear that about women that were in combat. Diego–you saw it–in Iraq and Afg—you get shot at in an office, you get shot at on patrol–even walking on base to the shower trailor. I saw platoon Sgts make mistakes on patrol. ****, I had to drive the Hummer a couple times b/c the young marines didn’t have their licenses/training yet! I also took control over a huge disaster when the MALE SSgt was too overwhelmed to even speak. So PLEASE…men…don’t discount what others are doing. We’re all just trying to serve the best country in the world in a way we would feel proud. Everyone has their own calling, don’t cheer on failure.
HMC (FMF/SW/AW) Retired, USN
If a sailor can do the SEAL training anyone can.
This an odd comment. And a foolish comment as well. Since the wash-out rate is high, no matter the service,
I fail to understand how you can begin to make that statement.
typical ******* jarhead
USMCJSY — Regardless of rating or community, all Navy personnel are considered to be Sailors. Thus by default, all SEALs are Sailors. Your comment that “If a sailor can do the SEAL training anyone can” therefore makes absolutely no sense at all.
I can say i would not feel as comfortable having a woman protecting my back in an op as i would having man. We have become this lets make everything equal kinda nation for politics. Guess what war isnt fair! So, why dont we as a nation require the same PTO for women as men? Its because there are differences. If i doubt the person behind me can cover my butt, i will perform different, and possibly endanger myself and others. I am not saying women are not equals, only there are some things that women shouldnt do, and there are some things i think men should leave to women. Its a proven fact women are more emotional then men. Thats an issue in its self, as emotions can get you killed quickly. Deigo I hope you get your political position. lol
If a sailor can do seal training, anyone can? What a foolish stupid statement. You, sir are a discredit to not just the Marine Corps., but to the entire military. I don’t know of a single sailor that would make such a statement about Marine Recon. Or Army SF. Or Air Force SF. Get your S**t together.
I am embarassed for most all of you. Would the politicos kindly stay out of the business of directing the daily activities of our military leadership and stick to the grand strategic thinking that they are supposedly elected to do? And, please retire first or get out and stop practicing with the lives of my Sailors, male and female. Expect this, you sorry lot that can’t check your egos, if you want to march off that cliff, you better damn not take any of my Sailors with you. You want it bad, you get it bad, waterboard and all.
MCPO USN (Ret)
I afree with you Master Chief!
SCPO USN-RET
Thank you, Master Chief!
— PO3 Active
Hey–I was an FMF Corpsman with the Marines in Iraq in 2005. Yes we as a unit got a Combat Action Ribbon which you know is hard by USMC standards. I will say there are SOME women out there that aren’t meant for combat. But consider this–my Marines came to me more about problems b/c they were comfortable talking to a woman rather than a guy that would say “suck it up”. I was more effective at multi-tasking, which women generally are. I flew 32 combat med-evacs. I had my arms elbow deep in the blood of my brother Marine…There are Marines walking today because of me…It’s a fact. Wow, I’m a girl. Though I am small, I trained hard and even earned my green belt in marine corps martial arts. I took the MALE PFT when I was with Marines. I loved it and felt honored to wear the uniform. Give some women some credit. There are some men that don’t belong in combat either!! I saw it. I lived it. There are limitations to both genders. Physically, psychologically, socially, you name it. But women are also known to deflate tense situations (ask the civilian cops!). So before you judge as a whole, I gotta break it to ya, there are women out there in combat b/c there are no “front lines” anymore.
Hey Navy Doc, you are so correct! Some jobs are more likely to fit a “male superstar” profile than “female superstar” profile and so be it. All that serve help the cause from the cook, to the medic, to the one that is pulling the trigger. God Bless America, and thank all of you that serve!
Dear Diego ,
You start off by attacking me that I am nothing but a chauvinist, not so. I’m a realist idealist facts not fiction. This fiasco. This training is not even close to what real seals go through at NSW Coronado, California, there is a workup before **** Week extremely difficult workup then there’s **** week and on and on to see if you can make the cut. Most men leave the program in the first few weeks. Now if you put the same woman on this tape through exactly the same thing the seals go through. I don’t think she’d make it the first two days again just the facts, nothing chauvinistic about the facts. There was a program that had nothing to do with Navy SEALs. It was women flying missions off of aircraft carriers landing and taking off sophisticated jets off a small platform is not easy job. The women weren’t up for it crashing too many airplanes just the facts dont I have anything against women certainly not in my view, they are the most precious respected honest, courageous beings on this Earth and should be treated with dignity equal opportunity that’s the way I feel about it, but the Navy SEALs, along with Army Rangers and other special ops women just aren’t up to the task. Nothing disrespectful just the facts take note men do not have the same psychological and physical problems the women do one being PMS periods. Cleanliness in the field is difficult even for men but for a woman it’s even more hazardous. Nothing personal, just the facts I respect everyone’s opinion on this site in my view, integrating women into the NFL, NBA and MLB is never going to happen. Why? They can’t compete with their male counterparts. Just a fact the exact same thinking goes into becoming the best of the best women just cannot compete with their male counterparts is not the woman’s fault. They’re just not built for it just the facts, not chauvinism. But reality if I offended you with my thoughts Diego that certainly wasn’t my intention, and I apologize if I offended you, as I said before, women are the most treasured and honored human beings . God ever put on this earth. I mean that with all due respect to women. They deserve it!!!
Respectfully.
Philip F Tourney
USN retired
Combat wounded veteran
I think everyone just read the title of this article and went off on tangents. If you read the first part of this post from a couple weeks ago-I believe– this woman is taking a SEAL-like training course made by FORMER SEALs in Virginia. She’s not in actual SEAL training…she’s not even in the military! Everyone should just take a chill pill and read the facts before going off. Sheesh!
http://military-fitness.military.com/2012/10/can-a-model-handle-navy-seal-training.html (Read the first sentence)
“Finger on the trigger, in the first picture”…that’s the first thing I noticed. Talk about a picture saying a thousand words!
You want to pick on a chauvanist, pick on me. Women can take down a General with a single phone call to a second cat in a catfight over who is playing with who under the table. The highest trained woman after costing hundreds of thousands can get out just by one missed pill. One woman can break up a whole team spirit just by flirting with one comrad over the others. You can go on and on with reasons not to put a woman in combat conditions. We in the Navy have lost more than our share of CO’s in the last couple of years over having women on combat ships. No less I’m sure in the other services. If the military must have women in places to fill billets, Make the units all female. Make the entire crew of Subs — Female.
To all you “Zenas” out there…We’re not saying that you belong in the kitchen, barefoot, & pregnant by any means.The female pilots, door gunners, etc. out there kick ***, but there are physical limitations that definately need to be considered. Carry on!